I understand your point, and I also see where toyg comes from. Let me try to phrase it another way:
Some tasks are inherently complex. Take data modelling as an example. Properly designing a database requires formal training. There's no way around it, and when you mask database design with a UI, you get the worst of both worlds. The complexity is there, unskilled users won't be able to tackle it, and the UI gets in the way of professionals with formal training.
Naturally, there is a continuum of tasks to be done, some can be solved with a poorly designed solution. If a user is empowered to generate a subpar solution, it is still better than no solution at all. That's the secret for Excel being the second best tool for any data manipulation task (for each task there is a better tool, but excel gets the job done in all of them).
The error here is selling visual programming tools as the next evolution step, which will phase out text UIs. It's not. It's a different tool, for a different use case, to be used by a different cohort of users.
My point isn’t that no code tools remove complexity. My point is that they make complexity easier to learn and deal with.
For example, Webflow, which is a no code tool for front end development of static sites, doesn’t eliminate any of the complexity of HTML and CSS.
It’s not easy or dumbed down at all. Most users need to watch tons of video tutorials to get started (if they don’t already know html/css).
But what the UI does do, is make it easier to learn those complexities.
It’s not offering a simplified set of dumbed down options. It’s offering a visual way to deal with all the complexities of HTML/CSS.
Personally, I’ve transitioned to building all marketing sites on webflow, not because it removes complexity (I want complexity!) but because dealing with the complexity is faster and easier with the tool.
> It’s offering a visual way to deal with all the complexities of HTML/CSS.
Uhm, a visual HTML designer, a field where we've not had any tool before (/sarcasm). But this is different! And you're totally not going to drop it once you've learnt the complexity and discovered all limitations. But hold on...
> to building all marketing sites
Ah yes. So the really complex stuff you'll still do with text. Got it.
> There’s other no code tools for things like mobile apps and CRUD.
You're joking, right? There are loads. They all suck to various degrees, which is why they are not popular.
> Ultimately, I think there’s a lot of fear
Mine is not fear as much as frustration for having to waste cycles on stuff that will not endure.
Take Power Automation (aka MSFlow): it's very powerful, but not because it's a graphical environment; it's because we have an environment with a lot of APIs available without having to do anything. If MS gave me a blank editor with all those APIs preloaded, I would be 1000000x more productive than I am fighting with this goddamn half-broken flowcharty thingie. Meanwhile, nobody else in my team (all non-devs) want to even consider look at it. They'd rather brush up on VBA if they really need to do complex stuff. And it's a shame, because the API wiring is amazing and when things eventually run it's magical.
Repl.it with all those APIs preloaded would be so much more popular than PA, which I fully expect will eventually die a slow death like Yahoo! Pipes and friends.
> and when you mask database design with a UI, you get the worst of both worlds
Visual tools don't inherently mask complexity. They can do, and many do, which is useful for some use cases. And they can also make things visible that CLI or text based tools generally don't. In that regard, they can support developers to complete higher complexity tasks.
Some tasks are inherently complex. Take data modelling as an example. Properly designing a database requires formal training. There's no way around it, and when you mask database design with a UI, you get the worst of both worlds. The complexity is there, unskilled users won't be able to tackle it, and the UI gets in the way of professionals with formal training.
Naturally, there is a continuum of tasks to be done, some can be solved with a poorly designed solution. If a user is empowered to generate a subpar solution, it is still better than no solution at all. That's the secret for Excel being the second best tool for any data manipulation task (for each task there is a better tool, but excel gets the job done in all of them).
The error here is selling visual programming tools as the next evolution step, which will phase out text UIs. It's not. It's a different tool, for a different use case, to be used by a different cohort of users.