Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

What about it gives you pause? The goal isn't to teach programming per se, but to have fun with some of the really interesting ideas and habits of mind that go along with programming. And to sneak in a lot of bad jokes.

Do you have or know kids? I'd be glad to send you a copy to show to them.



I think in theory, it's fantastic - the basic tenets of computer science are really fascinating, even abstracted away. I may look like an adult, but it's just a disguise.

It may be that the sample chapter wasn't representative of the rest of the book, but I found it a bit confusing. From an admittedly quick read, I got:

- commentary on jargon - a mention of red-black trees - reference to the Traveling Salesman Problem

What I found confusing is that if you have no grounding in CS, you wouldn't even catch the references - they don't seem to play a real part in the story.

If the traveling salesman were trying to find the shortest route to visit everyone, and had been trying for years and years and years on his own, and some days found one that was just a little bit shorter, and it was just enough hope to keep him going...the idea that figuring this out is difficult or impossible is at least well-explained.

I'm sure my algorithms teacher is upset by this, but I've completely forgotten how red-black trees work, and I didn't get a better understanding from that chapter.

I'm not trying to be an armchair critic, and I certainly like the story, but from this particular chapter I'm not completely clear on how it explains CS concepts.


No, you're right. The first chapter is allegory. Lauren is literally attacked by the Jargon. You're not supposed to understand all those words. They are Jargon. :) Not much learning happens in chapter 0 but it sets up the rest of the story.

There's a (very early) draft of a later chapter available: http://carlos.bueno.org/2011/01/tortoise.html

I do not actually explain red-black trees in the book, nor most of the things the Jargon say. There is a lot of ground to cover and I stuck to the stuff I understand best.


I considered it in terms of teaching computer science, especially given (http://carlos.bueno.org/2011/09/ipsum.html) and (http://carlos.bueno.org/2010/07/corrupting-the-youth.html). In that frame of mind, chapter 0 exert seemed like it mentioned computer science concepts, but they weren't really explored as such. I interpreted your goal as edutainment, a noble goal, but one that fails so often it triggers a certain amount of skepticism.

Being entertaining is a tough challenge as it is. Trying to be entertaining _and_ informative, and you're unlikely to accomplish both. That was my biggest challenge as an EFL teacher - I spent most of my time planning activities trying to be engaging and informative. Even then, I'd say only ~30% of the time did I really get the balance right in my lessons and that's in an active media where I can react to the class.

If its just meant to be a bit of fun with a topic then its a different thing. Perhaps its better described as a pop sci book for children. Like how Brief History of Time didn't go into detailed maths, but gave the reader a working mental model of complex phenomena in an interesting way. Perhaps Lorem Ipsum aims to give children that mental model of computation, without any expectation that they could reasonably apply it. Is that the sort of thing you're aiming at?

Edit: I just read through (http://carlos.bueno.org/2011/01/tortoise.html) extract you mentioned, and am a lot happier with it. You do have a really good way of personalising problems so that its about people all the time. I really like that, because that's something that is extremely important with children (and some adult learners). I remember I first groked multi-dimensional arrays from this MS-BASIC book I found in the school library, where it was explained by a large red jellybean jumping on this grid. I never understood the C-language book that dad gave me. That jumping jellybean was easy to understand.

I don't have any kids of my own. My cousin has young children, the oldest is just turning 7 in a few weeks. I think concepts like the sum of an infinite series might be a struggle for her at that age, but it would be very interesting to see what she and her brothers make of it. email is in my profile.


I have and know kids and am currently not at all convinced. We all read quite a lot (of children's literature). Certainly the eldest of my close group, she's 11, would be most interested in getting a pre-publication copy. She and her younger sister have not had any exposure to programming AFAIK.

If you've a copy to spare ...

Sorry if you find my forwardness offensive.

email addr in profile.about




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: